First off, I feel the need to defend my
friend Patricia Logan's book "Silver Ties (Silvers)"- I
shared my review of it yesterday. This one 2-star review got my mind
going for the following post. For some reason, I can't manage to give
you a link, but feel free to wander over to Amazon and read the 14
reviews the book has currently received. Now first off- yes, I gave
the book a 5 star while she only gave it 2. From my perspective, she
quibbles about BDSM practices, activities as if her understanding of
these things are the only understanding- or at least the only correct
one. She quibbles about how Zack- the story's Dom- presents himself
as a Dom. Yes, Zack needs the leathers etc to get into the right
mental space to dominate. More power to him; that's not how my Master
and I play (my Master is much closer to The Queen's preference for a
pair of jeans), but you know, it's a PREFERENCE! There is not a thing
wrong with the way Zack is as a dominant as long as the submissive
he's playing with it is okay and well, Cassidy finds it very hot.
Also I would summarize several of her
comments as "That's not how I play/I found that too intense."
Well I find watersports play that involves the drinking of urine too
intense; should I go find a watersports story and complain in a
review of it?
But this review is just the starting
point for me thoughts. I've had other conversations recently where a
friend "into BDSM" questioned something and often enough, I
thought the questioning unfair. Just because you don't like or don't
agree with a specific type of relationship or sexual activity, it
does not always make the "whatever" inherently wrong.
Like one is "Christian Domestic
Discipline." I probably won't do it justice and I hope a friend
who writes/practices DD will comment in my comments about this. To my
understanding, DD is almost like a sub-set or a related relationship
type to BDSM. Now CDD is a sub-set of DD; you don't have to be
Christian to practice DD, but there are Christians who do. While I
enjoy "spanking/Domestic Discipline" fiction, I know the
whole practice isn't for me. I like the Dominance/submission of BSDM,
but there's a whole world of activities I enjoy that don't
necessarily "belong" under DD practices as well. That's
fine to my Master and I; we have our BDSM, we have friends who are
into DD- neither of us are better or worse. However with an explosion
in articles written about DD- and not by DD practitioners, that I'm
aware- I worry that the DD community is simply getting what BDSM-ers
have been getting already with the popularity of "Fifty Shades
of Grey"- people writing about us who don't really know what
they're writing about. Sure, you can read an article about safeword
use and think you understand, but you don't.
Beyond outsiders of the community-
whether it's BDSM or DD we're talking about- let's touch on community
members judging each other. I've already vented a few times
throughout this post, given a few examples. But really, why do we
judge each other's kinks? Don't we get enough of that from the
outside? People telling us that what we do is disgusting, wrong? We
are talking about adult consenting to activity. As long as everyone
is consenting, no children or animals are involved, and no permanent
harm is done without previous agreement, I don't see where it's
anyone's place to tell another what's right or wrong.
Thank you so much, Joelle. I loved writing those characters in Silver Ties so much, that I planned out what has now become a 7 book series (Master's Boys) and a 6 book series (Invitation Only) because I couldn't give them up and I wanted to get to know their kinky lives on a deeper level. I agree with you. No one has a right to judge what goes on in the bedroom for a couple or in a poly relationship. It's no ones business what one likes or how far they push. I don't enjoy scat or piss play either. One of my best friends described it to me as "think of the humiliation of being pissed on" "You are lower than low and that's what that man needs". He's right. That's what that sub needed. Who am I to judge. I only wished that there were more people as open minded as you are. Thank you
ReplyDeleteyou're welcome, Patricia. I forget where it was I said it, but in reading that review, writing about it, talking with BDSM friends, lots of thought about Zack and Cassidy, I've come to realize some very important things about how my Master and I approach things. I think, in not going all rigid, structural about introducing the topics of soft/hard limits with Cassidy, Zack in many ways has done in fiction what my Master did, what I wanted Him to do. Sure, some people enjoy those questionnaire- I don't, I've never wanted to do one as the basis of starting a relationship.
Deleteon series, does Invitation Only come before or after Master's Boys? I still want to loop back and read the first two in the Silvers trilogy
I'm interesting on piss play. I love it when my Master pisses on (thankfully He only does it in the shower to aid in clean up), but the porn pics of it all seem to include into a woman's open mouth and that just icks me out.
Invitation Only is the next series. It's really a continuation of Master's Boys. When I was researching enemas for a book, I stumbled along a vintage gay porn video and it was really shocking. I'd never seen scat or cared to view it, which is why I'd never looked for it, but I suppose I should have been prepared in the whole "Pig" scene. I wasn't. Oh, well, live and learn. There's a lot of piss play stuff available on the internet. Just go looking for it and you will find it but be forewarned. A lot of it is difficult (at least it was for me) to watch
DeleteI don't really look much anymore. I know what I want and it's a lovely reward when my Master decides to do it. It's not really something I need to see. Now enemas, that's different. I'm actually wanting to get about writing an enema scene for tomorrow's blog post, if I can get over my irritation at my Master for not fixing the kitchen sink- going on over a week now and dealing with bowls and trips to the bathroom to empty them ugh
Deleteah, next series... well I will be watching for it then. after I write that enema scene, I need to get about writing my review for "Grit"- I absolutely loved it, stayed up way late to read the whole thing :D Zack is way too yummy and I love Jimmy- I was amused when my Master joined me in bed this morning and I rolled against His chest to think "yup, I have my own bear, even if He's straight" :D
Great post. Judging other people is wrong. Each person has their own needs, wants and desires. To each their own.
ReplyDeletethanks Melissa. Yeah, as long as everyone consents, what does it really matter?
DeleteYou would typically think people practicing their own kinks in their own lives would be more open minded about other people's kinks. It makes me sad when that isn't the case. Also, I will never understand people leaving bad reviews for books when they disagree with the lifestyle depicted. Why did you read it then?
ReplyDeleteNice, thoughtful post!
Well I think this wasn't a case of "I hate spanking, why do you have spanking"- when it's clearly mentioned in the blurb- like some of our friends have experienced, Casey. The reviewer mentioned she'd read other m/m, BDSM- but she disagreed with the way Patricia laid out BDSM in her novels. I mean- HER NOVELS. They're Patricia's works of fiction, and while I have railed against FSoG's presentation of BDSM, I don't think it's similar to have this woman was disagreeing with Patricia on BDSM. She specifically mentioned safewords and soft/hard limits, and I think her opinions on Patricia's were just that, opinions. I don't think her dom Zack did anything unsafe.
DeleteBut yeah, why give 2 stars and spend a lot of words to judge a book mostly on disagreements about how BDSM is presented in it? She did start out her review griping about some writing-related things (which I don't agree with either) but much more of her gripes were about BDSM. give me a break! Patricia knows what she's writing about and she's not like E L James who was quoted in an interview- "I only went into one adult toy store and I was disgusted so I did all my research online." I call BS!!! lol
She really said that? GRRRR! She's made millions on that series. It fries me that she would say that. That right there is equivalent to Paula Deen talking about how she throws the word Nigger around. Her career should have never stood up against that.
DeleteI caught an interview on ABC with her and while I might not have the words exactly right, that was the heart of her comment. She was disgusted by the adult toy store- no comments about what the store was like... if it was clean, dirty, sleezy, one of "for couples" type places... nothing! she was disgusted. And yeah, that got me venting to when I heard it. The fuck said that one place that we kinksters can be ourselves is disgusting. As I said to my Master, "I won't bed to spend more than 75 cents of Your money to pay the holds on those horrid books just so I can rip them apart intelligently."
Deleteyeah, Paula Deen is another atrocious one. As I saw another person saying of her, "I think when she apologized, it was only apologizing that she was caught."
I agree with everything you've said, Joelle. I think BDSM and DD are both very personal, private and unique to each couple. What I enjoy, you may hate, but that's personal preference. One of the activities I've seen hotly contested within the community, to the point of casting slurs, is subs topping from the bottom. You'd think they'd committed the greatest sin possible. And it's the subs more than the Doms who object to the behavior. They view it as a slur against submission. Point is, not everyone plays the same way, but that doesn't mean if someone finds "fun" in playing different games than I do that their play is wrong or subversive. It's just different. And that's okay. At least to me it is.
ReplyDeleteyeah, the topping from below debates. Ugh, that's one I've stayed far away from, Kathryn. I've been into BDSM 20 years now and I've seen them countless times. It's not the way I chose to play, but yeah, that's me. Although I've had to admit recently that I really do enjoy the "bratting behavior" as it's come to be described. I really enjoy the books by Cari Silverwood, Leia Shaw, and Sorcha Black for their experiments around subs who brat. Normally it's cute, funny behavior. I realized that, well people will hear me say "I'm a lifestyle submissive" and they get this perception borrowed directly from porn and BDSM erotica of a broken woman who is perfectly obedient. That's just not me. Sure, I show my Master a lot of respectful behavior, but that doesn't preclude the occasional grope of His genitals when I'm trying to talk Him into having sex :D
DeleteMaybe topping from the bottom is different in the MM community. I always found it to be a turn on to have a Master order his sub to top him and make him so something. If Master wants it and sub is being obedient, then why wouldn't that be perfect for them?
Deletenods, I do believe it's different, Patricia. I think part of the issue is that "topping from below" is mainly talked about by heterosexuals who don't have the top/bottom references as far as giving or receiving of anal penetration. In many ways, the "topping from below" that Kathryn mentions is about this notion that a submissive isn't "submissive enough" if she is topping from below.
DeleteI think part of the problem is that those of us who are in an alternative lifestyle HOPE that others in it will be open. I mean, we should, right? We all grasp something outside the norm and the coined term "Your Kink isn't my kink and that's okay" should mean something.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it does not. In some ways it almost makes them feel even more judgmental as how can someone who likes "A" condemn "B"?
When it comes to book reviews, I also think that people might not recognize what it is they do/don't like about a certain book so they might throw out things that may/may not have anything to do with why it brought them to review it.
Yes, Thianna. As my Master says "You concentrate too much on 'what should be' and sometimes miss 'what is'." That's His common response when I get venting. Because yes, I hope a lot. After all, as a Unitarian Universalist I have our first principle that states "I affirm and promote the inherent worthy and dignity of every person." I know even I fall short on that.
DeleteAnd yeah, I think many people just aren't very thoughtful when reviewing and rating a book. It's like we just don't understand how to do it, why to do it, what a negative review could do to an author. At least, not until we're publishing our own books.
Great post! I agree. As long as animals or children are not involved whatever two (or more) consenting adults decide to do for their sexual enjoyment should be left alone and not judged. 'Live and let live' and try to focus on more important things like stopping child molestation and cruelty to animals. Nobody is perfect and doesn't have the right to judge. I was taught that the only perfect person was crucified. That's my feelings. We all have different beliefs and we should try and respect each other and, well hell, get along.
ReplyDeleteheh yes... just all get along :D It is a complex thing though, Mary. I know I struggle around the issue where some heterosexuals will look at LGBTQI Pride stuff and ask "why?" To which, I will say (until, unless our culture changes) that the day a person of any gender can hold the hand(s) of loved ones of any genders without fear in public, there will be a need for those Pride events. Just like African Americans in many cases still feel the need for things like "Black History month" because there is still so much oppression out there.
DeleteBut yeah, there are more important things out there than to judge.