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...profanity, sexually explicit dialog andadult imagery.
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Thursday, November 20, 2014

#SRR Ownership is the key for me, in writing & fiction, not humiliation

I realized this morning,  looking at the title, that I should add "in real life too"- since I do so much writing of what happens in my life, I forgot to put that in my title :D.

I'm glad to Spanking Romance Reviews for sponsoring this discussion; it feels weird to have no one to thank for hosting though as I'm the one hosting this month. Never expected that to happen :D So for this different (for me) SRR, I'm going to share the intro and my questions- I'm silly proud of them, you see.

Ownership versus Humiliation. The focus differs for many people- as shown in the conversations around "Anal Punishment- Hot? or Not?" last month- of whether any given activity is engaged in as an act of ownership or humiliation. While Aubrey Cara, who commented that I'd hit on a possible topic, divided her thoughts into BDSM writers and DD/spanking writers, I think the divisions aren't quite that neat or distinct.

* How do you understand the difference between an ownership- or a humiliation-focus in writing and/or in real life?
* If you live some level of DD, BDSM, include spanking in your relationship- do your practices focus more on ownership or humiliation?
* When you're reading spanking fiction, do you have a preference for either of these focuses? Or does it even matter to you?
* And of course, feel free to add your own comments and questions- after all, I come to this conversation as a reader of DD/spanking fiction, but an author of BDSM fiction.

The first thing I want to say, before getting into the questions, is that I don't think it has to be a "versus" between ownership and humiliation, but I think that happens in spanking fiction (more so than IRL, whether a relationship has a BDSM, a DD, or spanking focus). Sadly I can't think of any specific books where this plays out; I can only think of my own writing, where often it seems my ownership emphasis makes my writing feel differently than many of my friends' books and snippets that I read. Interestingly as I work on my Nanowrimo novel for the year, my one main character who is a "spanking author," I find in her WIP that I'm using a bunch of humiliating language- "naughty girl" and "panties" and "at your ankles." It feels weird, I must say. Somehow I think that if I was actually writing out her novels, I'd find the percentage of "humiliating language" to be quite low. However a good portion of her writing that I'm doing is "for blog hop" type posts.

Now I see that I've started answering my first question. To me, it is a lot about word choice, especially IRL. With my Master and I, we just don't use much humiliation language or activity; heck, I'd beg Him to engage in enema domination if enemas weren't a hard limit for Him. However- and this is part of where Aubrey suggested this is as a topic- in my fantasies, enemas aren't about humiliation, but ownership. Like with the link I shared with Katherine Deane when I was suggesting this topic, I see care and ownership. In the short, The Queen gives Abrecan an enema to show how he cares for Abrecan as his slave. Later in Vala's Story, there's a moment around enemas and golden showers that The Queen says to Vala, there is no part of you that I cannot possess because I own you. Gives me delicious shivers, even though I'm not entirely sure that's his word choice, but I'm not going into Vala's Story during Nanowrimo to look :D.

When it comes to humiliation IRL, I've already explained that my Master and I don't use it. Our focus is "Joelle is my slave so I can fuck her whenever." Although for Shaman, if I'm really not into sex or BDSM, it quickly becomes a "yeah, I can go watch some porn instead." I need to go a step further here though with some thoughts of mine that I haven't bothered Shaman with- the poor Man, I spend way more time pondering things than probably necessary. For me, I see too much humiliation (especially in fiction) as being used as a justification for enjoying sexuality. As a sex-positive person I struggle to accept that logic as being a good thing. One day Shaman was joking about "you want punishment" and I corrected Him, saying, "No, Master, I don't want punishment, I want You to spank me because it feels good to me." No judgment meant for people who enjoy a humiliation or a punishment dynamic, but considering mainstream sexuality in the US, I find accepting that I want sex or BDSM activity is more transgressive, positive. All that said, I don't think erotic humiliation is necessarily bad- just not something I'm into.

In reading, too much use of humiliation will often prevent me from reading a snippet or book. The crazy thing- to me at least- is that corner time in spanking fiction too often comes off (in word choice of the author) as "supposed to be humiliating" and that gets a squick for me. Although I have found Rayanna Jamison's use of corner time in her polygamy spanking series "Love Multiplied" as something I enjoy; I can't really say why her writing of corner time doesn't squick me.

This is a separate topic (and I know SRR has approached it before) but the whole thing of fantasy/reality in erotic fiction. I know for me, I usually prefer more reality especially when the reality MATCHES mine- being a queer, kinky, poly woman, I see all too little of myself in erotic romance and the focus of so many stories on humiliation only seems to make it feel even less representative to me.

So I'm always on the hunt for books that are more about ownership than humiliation, especially in DD stories, where I find the accepted ownership delicious. I also give this challenge to my authors friends- more male/male, female/female, genderqueer characters mixed in couples and trios in spanking/DD fiction. and with that, I bow out to go get a "good girl" spanking from my Master and horrify Him with my asking :D.


  1. Hi Joelle, thank you for hosting this discussion. These are great questions and I enjoyed reading your perspective.


  2. Interesting discussion, I think the use of language (little girl, young lady, my child) and the sending a girl to the corner or her room etc is the demonstration of that ownership. As you say it is not one OR the other, the one complements the other

    1. Thanks for the comment, Peter. Funny thing to me is that I've never seen the language- like the examples you give of "little girl" etc- as humiliating within the context of a negotiated BDSM/DD relationship. At least they aren't for me so I don't necessarily read them into fiction that I'm reading.

    2. No, I agree, anything said is only humiliating to the extent the person receiving it feels it to be so. Very effective in confirming positions though, and as a Dom I just love using the language, especially in role play

    3. Yes, confirming positions. That's how my Master and I much are. While I end most sentences I speak to Him with "Master" as long as there're no mundanes around I should respect, He calls me what He pleases. Sometimes that's my first name, sometimes it's brat, wench, any number of things lol. Although He's used to me protesting if He starts joking with more vanilla endearments like snookums, sweetie :D

  3. I think this was a really interesting topic, Joelle! I enjoyed reading your opinions and as always you brought an interesting insight. Thanks for sharing.

    1. And thanks for commenting, Casey. I don't know how well I did in acknowledging semantics as both Aubrey and Corinne did, although I know I did put my use of language forward. I know that my perspective is often so different- I mean :D my "how I see things" in the right column of my block, my thread the other day on Facebook about how the phrase "traditional values" can make me feel unwelcome, regardless of how the author is using it.

  4. Thanks for hosting! I'm trying to think of some books where accepted ownership is a bigger theme (outside of Cherise Sinclair books). There is a Jet Mykles Dark Elves book. I think it's Dark Elves 2, Mastered. Also Katrina Strauss's Secret Revealed, but it's been a while since I read that one and may be remembering it wrong.

    1. You're welcome- it was fun and different to be the host this time. Thanks for the book suggestions. I've only read one of Cherise's books so far, but only because I haven't managed to buy more :D. I'll have to look those books up.

  5. This was a really great topic for opening up different sides of the same coin. I think you hot the nail on the head when you described the scene of your Master asking if you wanted to be punished & while you wanted to be spanked you wanted it to be cast in a positive light. I love that! For me it can be a little more complicated. I love good girl spankings as much as the next girl, but I crave being cared for to the point of correction if I'm veering of course. In those situations his correction & discipline turn me on immensely because he is actively caring for me & working with me to be the person I want to be. I am very self improvement & goal oriented. So mixing my kink with that along with the feeling of being possessed is exactly what I need. I think some of the wordage you used for me feels like I'm being completely possessed, encircled, & cared for. For me being able to be who I am and act on these deep needs is sex positive. So again I think that comes down to what that means to each individual person. It is a different flavor than most D/s relationships. I saw that in my DD groups time & again. Yes, there is a difference and both are completely beautiful in their own light. I can see for excluding it could be to not see your brand of kink reflected in the fiction that is out there. Hopefully as the years go on that will change as more and more people feel comfortable in their own skin. Thank you for this lovely topic! I always love reading your thoughts on things!

    1. thanks for your nice long comment, Corinne :) I find it interesting, the notion of cared for. When it comes to Shaman needing to correct my course, based on my particular health issues, that tends to come in concrete things like "You eat before you make me food" and "How many energy drinks have you had?" So for us, the correction tends to come in ways that look pretty vanilla to the person unfamiliar with the dynamics of our relationship. We also use a lot of conversation; as I was explaining to my teen today, how Shaman and I go through the pros/cons about whether I'll go to something at my local UU church (where I have nearly decade of history and difficulties- teen actually refuses to go there and he said today that as long as the director of religious education who blamed him for his bullying, he refuses to go). But with every event that happens there, we talk about whether I should go and without actually pulling "I'm Master" acts, Shaman'll say when He feels that certain events are simply not in my best interest. More often than not, I submit to His judgment on it. I'm still tickled by how much of what DD-ers say resonates with me- just with a bit of different word choice. I found at first that I would mess up stories for myself because I would put so much of my understanding of ownership into DD scenarios where it just didn't fit. But yeah, I think it really is about trying to see myself in the fiction I was reading. It makes me think of a documentary I watched recently- "The Celluloid Closet." I forget which person said it, but one talked about how "Gay people are so desperate to see ourselves in movies that we'll accept crumbs. We'll watch a whole horrible movie for one moment, one character who seems possibly gay."