This blog will contain...
...profanity, sexually explicit dialog andadult imagery.
If you are under 18 and/or offended by this...

Thanks fiona, from "Sir Q and Me" for the warning message that just makes me melt. :)

Thursday, July 31, 2014

#SRR ... Discipline AND Punishment- how they work in my BDSM (DD?) life

Thanks to Thianna D. and Spanking Romance Reviews for hosting this round table. When I signed up, I expected this to be easier to write than it was; however I think that's more a comment on watching my very old dog as she's having a bad day, when we're starting to have the "will she get up again?" "Is it time to have her put to sleep?" conversation. Sighs, but she's in no pain that we can tell, so my Master just shakes His legs more in anxiety and I want to look at nothing but my computer screen, but frustratingly, I see anxious Master to the left and old, falling apart dog to the right.

For me, discipline is something that you know you should do, that you don't need an order (whether from a dominant/HoH as an adult submissive, from a parent to a child, from a boss to an employee) to complete. More than the first order to do something, that is. As a lifestyle submissive who lives a life looking muchly like a housewife, discipline is what guides me as I do the laundry, prepare meals, clean the dishes, etc. Punishment is one that I have a harder time with. While I do use punishment in my writing, especially as I tend to write things set at a medium BDSM protocol, I live at a low level BDSM protocol. To explain to people unfamiliar with the BDSM protocol levels, this means I tend to live with a less obvious sort of rigidity than you might see in BDSM erotica/erotic romance. Punishment isn't something I live with much. When I read DD/spanking fiction, I find it confusing to see specific things (like swearing for example) being worth so many spanks- a number of impacts (of hand, implement etc) is just something that neither my Master nor I have ever wanted.

Beyond the "not wanting," the current struggles that my Master and I have been going through make "punishment" an even harder thing for me to consider. It seems punishment should be synonymous with "deterrent," but the fact that I need implement play to help control my bipolar, to feel more balanced... and my Master ISN'T, whether from depression or illness or any of the dozens of other stressors currently complicating our lives... just isn't doing them makes reading about impact activities, whether spanking with a hand, a brush, a paddle, ginger in the rectum, corner time, the dozens of other things used in spanking, DD, BDSM fiction, as punishment difficult. I just don't get it.

I actually prefer the word discipline, as I've used it. As a way of approaching things. Of course, it's a constant tension for me to run the house as my Master wants. My mother-in-law can be rather old-fashioned in some things and she ran a pretty tight house as He was growing up; unfortunately no matter how many times I say "Master, I need something like Flylady to help me because I simply didn't get the teaching that Your mother did," He doesn't get it really. And the current infestation of earwigs doesn't help- I spend all too much time in the midst of things like "cleaning the kitchen" in killing earwigs- lol, I may border on "hippie" as my Master likes to teach about homemade shampoos and such, but earwigs will die. Icky things.

Well my neighbors on either side really don't know much. Although I'm out as "not straight" and polyamorous to the middle aged non-denominational Christian woman to one side- it amuses her to have such an "out there" friend :D. I'm out and I'm not to my parents- they will receive comments like "I have to talk to Don about that"- but they happily, firmly live in denial. I think online talking to friends, because in this conservative hellhole in which I live, most of my friends are online, I spend a lot of time explaining my reality. Because somehow the fact that I live "Master/slave" equals "high protocol"- if you'd like to read my most recent vent on assuming what protocol I live based on my identity, click here. I'm not under heavy bondage, discipline, or the threat of punishment constantly. If anything, I'd love a little more of that type of stuff from my Master- not so much in others' books, my books, my fantasies.

Abuse. Hm. You see that's the last thing; I'm still debating the words to use. It's about consent so much for me. Although it's not all that easy as that. I got into it once with a BDSM friend who doesn't agree with Christian Domestic Discipline- he doesn't see that the submissive is consenting necessarily because of the (usually? some CDD person care to comment if my usually is correct?) conservative Christian interpretation of the bible that's used by CDD people. However, I think that the submissive even in CDD can give her consent. Of course, I'm thinking a bunch about edge play and consent (from what I shared in WIP it up Wednesday two weeks ago in part; I enjoy quite a bit of edge play IRL). What does it mean to withdraw one's consent? I'm not as sure as I once was. In part it's because I've read more from people who enjoy saying things like "no" and "stop" during BDSM activity; again, not something my Master and I are into- if I actually use either of those words during BDSM activity, my Master takes them at their accepted meaning, not as roleplay.


  1. I like your take on things especially the master/slave not always being high protocol. While in one sense high protocol would actually make things easier in part because of the strict always on one side of the line drawn in the sand, procedures, I agree that in reality living that regimented of life just isn't realistic. My wife has a disciplined life, but in a way I do too. Reality isn't porn or fiction, it's what fits.

    1. thanks for the comment, Jolynn. The other thing I think about protocol, regardless of what I may or may not want, doesn't being in a M/s put "what is wanted" more on my Master? Well He wants low protocol. Times that He's seen people behaving high protocol at munches, He's commented about how He doesn't like that. As I have The Queen joke in a philosophical conversation about obedience- "If I wanted a robot, I would fly to Japan and buy the best money can get." Yes, sometimes strictness on His part would help me, but it forces me to look at things like Flylady, do my damnedest to use them, to please Him.

  2. This is a great question and I enjoyed reading your perspective Joelle.


  3. I like when you share things about your life. You are living the BDSM lifestyle, but you live it your own way. Is there any 'right' way for two people to live? If it works for you and your partner, then it works. And sometimes it doesn't work, and you reassess. Thanks, Joelle. I like this post!

    1. thanks for the comment, Casey. I like your comment about reassessing- I once had a UU minister who thought he understand BDSM from having read some articles- talked about "you really have the power because of your safe word"- I decided he didn't get it so I wasn't going to interrupt his assumptions in that moment. He thought that my unhappiness was caused by the BDSM relationship, not by the struggles totally unrelated to the power dynamic, that my Master and I were struggling with- and he said "you need to renegotiate out of your roles." I shake my head at the memory of that; it's just so far outside of my reality, my understanding. You know what my Master has actually found that works the best when there's an issue and I'm obviously struggling to put it into words so He can react, do something about it? He takes me on His lap almost like a bit of ageplay

  4. Joelle
    I thought I had posted this but now I can't see it, so if it is published twice, my apologies.

    I love your take on things. I have read a couple of your blog posts now and you write seemingly effortlessly (even as you say you find it hard to do :))

    I am in a similar relationship and it is so good to know that not every relationship has to be like those in books, etc. It is more real life. It is not ALL BDSM. It is life that is tinged with BDSM, if that makes any sense.

    I will look forward to more of your blog posts. :)

    1. thanks for the comment, Lee, and no, you didn't manage a double comment.

      Well it's like I tried to explain to one friend who just wanted me to write a paragraph for her after I'd counseled her through her BDSM/cross-dressing fantasies- I can do so much more, just not immediately- that created my post on Monday. But with my Master, our teen, our aged dog, my bipolar, and dozen other health issues and daily concerns- some days I can type hundreds of words and other days, it takes me all day to write a 1000 word post (be it fiction or educational/philosophical/rant).

      yes, "... life that is tinged with BDSM"- that makes perfect sense to me. It's like I was talking with Jolynn above in her comment- people do have this tendency to make assumptions of "high protocol" like in some books based on the fact that I call my dominant "my Master."

      I'm glad you enjoy my blog :)

  5. Thanks for the personal insight! (I have a similar reaction to swearing being worthy of so many spanks in fiction, but probably for different reasons.)

    1. thanks for the comment, Cara. I think on swearing, beyond all my personal reasons, it's the uniformity of its being a spankable offense. I think of it like this- early in our relationship, my Master and I flirted with a very Gorean-type BDSM; however we were never serious about it because there were several things about it that we dislike- one of those being the notion that a kajira/slave girl should sleep in bed with her Master- she should be bound to the foot of the bed or something. Well my Master wanted to curl up with me while He slept. Being told His desire was wrong based on "that's not how they do it in the books," my Master wasn't having any of that. Then there was the incident with something telling Him of about the knife play/edge play we enjoy- especially on the knife play that I'd begged for. He was lectured by some person online that knife play isn't SSC. I don't know if it's because of how I stand at the "borderlands" of so many identities (to use the Latino/Latina activist phrase), but I see so much space for variety. If a dominant doesn't want hir submissive to swear, that's fine- but not if it's because some website, some book, some other person says so... at least not to me

    2. lol "...slave girl SHOULDN'T sleep in bed..." yeah, thank goodness that my Master is understanding of my really bad periods

  6. Great post, and one of my bugaboos about some of the tropes in BDSM fiction. They may have started out as reality, but somebody made them 'twue' and now people think that is what BDSM is.

    When BDSM is only what that partnership says it is. (not to mention the fact that most people still don't get that BDSM covers such a wide array of activities and thought processes that to even narrow it down to the letters B D S M just doesn't do it justice.)

    I always find the 'number' of spankings in erotic literature rather amusing. Sometimes I'll mention them as 10-20 swats are -a marking of low-level as to say "yeah, this is just a warning". But for anyone who has been spanked or is used to it, number doesn't usually signify anything. Intensity, longevity, implement, and how important a rule is to those individual matters far more.

    And not knowing how many swings are coming sometimes is a far bigger deterrent :D

    1. ah yes, twue lol. Yeah, I try to put as much true-as-I-see it in my stories, but I'm quite aware it's how I see BDSM, the limits of my experiences in it. Like I recall discussing a rape play scene later on in Vala's Story with an earlier BR- her and her dominant argued with me over it. I finally said- "Look, are either of you rape survivors? No? Well I am and I can see where rape play could help a survivor."

      But yes, what the people say it is- it's like my Master and I around food. Probably half the time I remember His order for me to eat before I start making His food, go to serve Him- after all, He doesn't want to have me have a hypoglycemic event and have me ill the next few hours.

      There are truly so many things to an impact play session- I agree, number seems to be at best a starting point for the conversation. I enjoyed in Melody & Maddie's "Pleasure Bay" recently where they had a submissive think on what a specific dom's "10 swats" could mean- that was fun to read in fiction.

      thanks for the comment, Thianna :)

  7. Joelle, your post highlights the point that each relationship is individual and unique. High protocol, to my mind, has a much more rigid structure. There is a regimentation to it that is similar to the military. Expectations are practically written in stone with little room for negotiation. Low to medium protocol allows for more flexibility and individuality in day-to-day interactions. Certain expectations are set, but the rest is managed on a let's see-how-it-goes, basis. My impression of high protocol, is that the training a submissive receives is identical to the training of another submissive living under high protocol, so that if another Dom, with the permission of the first, of course, gives an order for submissive to assume a certain position or presentation of her body, she will do precisely as he expects she should. She will not speak unless given permission, and will keep her eyes lowered at all times, unless requested or ordered to do otherwise. I could never live that way. I'm far too independent and outspoken to ever consider myself suitable for such a lifestyle. As to the number of strokes rule, I agree that it isn't the number that makes the difference, it's the attitude change. However, I have used it when I want a couple to establish a guideline as to what is considered unacceptable. It's a beginning tool, and probably not something an established couple would maintain or institute. It sets expectations as to the severity of a broken rule. However, when an attitude requires adjusting, the session needs to be what the dominant feels the submissive requires. No more or less.

    My heart aches for you and your family with an aging doggy. All I can say is that the animal will let you know when it's time. We've had to do it several times, so I know how gut wrenching the time can be. I wish all of you peace.

    1. Very true on high protocol, the expectations of similiar training. I guess that's one of the problems I have with the notion of high protocol- to me, how should be the final arbiter of what the slave does? I say the dominant. Like in my writing, this shows up in The Queen preferring eye contact with his slaves to lowered eyes; who is anyone to tell him he's wrong? His slaves know this before they become his so they by accepting his collar accept this.

      Pup is having a good day thankfully. Interestingly, this is one of those places where I show the letter-of-the-law isn't how I work as a submissive. my Master wants Chyna happy and comfortable; He didn't want to make the decision so I went out and bought wet food, broth (for on her kibble), and diapers. She's not too thrilled about the diapers, but she prefers the food mix :D He admits He doesn't always know or do what's right; sometimes I gotta go for His end desire by a different path.

      thanks for the comment, Kathryn